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I recently found myself engaged in a brief but civil exchange with the person running @FRONTmag, the official Twitter account of FRONT magazine. For those who don’t know what FRONT is, feel free to use the search engine of your choice, but be aware that what you find might be classed as ‘Not Safe For Work’.
Anyway, we’ve hosted guest posts discussing FRONT before (like this one, from the wonderful Nathan Stephens-Griffin), but I reckon there’s a lot more to be said on the matter, so I’m inviting anyone with a view on the topic to get in touch with ideas for guest articles. Here are some possible starting points:
How do you feel about FRONT’s history as a publication, and how that history relates to the way it is currently presented and perceived?
Do you feel that FRONT has a legitimate contribution to make to punk and hardcore?
What are your feelings when bands you enjoy work with the magazine?
How does FRONT as a phenomenon fit into contemporary discourses around pornography? Do you feel that it represents female sexualities in a positive way? Do you feel it represents male sexualities in a positive way?
I’m aware that a lot of these questions could be read as leading questions, but I really do want to present a range of perspectives on this one. I Live Sweat was always intended to spark intelligent and respectful debate and reflection within punk and hardcore (and comics), so if you’ve got an intelligent and respectful view, whichever side you come down on, if indeed you do have a firm view, I’d love to hear from you.
If you’re interested in sharing your thoughts, please get in touch via ilivesweat AT gmail DOT com.
Andy
(Note: If you’ve got an idea for a guest post that has absolutely nothing to do with this, get in touch too! Always looking for new writers.)
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I recently found myself engaged in a brief but civil exchange with the person running @FRONTmag, the official Twitter account of FRONT magazine. For those who don’t know what FRONT is, feel free to use the search engine of your choice, but be aware that what you find might be classed as ‘Not Safe For Work’.

Anyway, we’ve hosted guest posts discussing FRONT before (like this one, from the wonderful Nathan Stephens-Griffin), but I reckon there’s a lot more to be said on the matter, so I’m inviting anyone with a view on the topic to get in touch with ideas for guest articles. Here are some possible starting points:

  • How do you feel about FRONT’s history as a publication, and how that history relates to the way it is currently presented and perceived?
  • Do you feel that FRONT has a legitimate contribution to make to punk and hardcore?
  • What are your feelings when bands you enjoy work with the magazine?
  • How does FRONT as a phenomenon fit into contemporary discourses around pornography? Do you feel that it represents female sexualities in a positive way? Do you feel it represents male sexualities in a positive way?

I’m aware that a lot of these questions could be read as leading questions, but I really do want to present a range of perspectives on this one. I Live Sweat was always intended to spark intelligent and respectful debate and reflection within punk and hardcore (and comics), so if you’ve got an intelligent and respectful view, whichever side you come down on, if indeed you do have a firm view, I’d love to hear from you.

If you’re interested in sharing your thoughts, please get in touch via ilivesweat AT gmail DOT com.

Andy

(Note: If you’ve got an idea for a guest post that has absolutely nothing to do with this, get in touch too! Always looking for new writers.)

    • #Front
    • #gender
    • #pornography
    • #sexuality
    • #feminism
    • #punk
    • #hardcore
  • 4 months ago
  • 105
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“Digital and vinyl serve two different purposes…” Nick Mango challenges a few common assumptions about the ways we listen.

The fine gentlemen* at I Live Sweat gave me the opportunity to write an article comparing digital to vinyl, but, to be honest, as I started to think about it, I realized that the only time you see articles comparing these two things is when someone has a passionate opinion about one or the other. And yes, I could do that kind of article, but what good would it do us? Not much. My opinion on which is better or worse will not change anyone’s mind. It’ll just be another ranting piece of drivel falling on the deaf ears of those opposed to my opinion, so I thought it might be a better idea to do an article about how digital and vinyl serve two different purposes, and it’s those purposes that we actually have passion for, not the medium in which we experience them.

I Own More Than a 1000 Coffee Tables

The term “format”, by definition, is the form in which content is presented to an audience. For instance, the digital format is presented to it’s audience as a music file encoded as MP3, AAC, FLAC, etc. The CD format is a disc that stores encoded data. The cassette… well, you see what I mean. Notice that in all these cases, the format is never more important than the content it presents. People don’t buy multiple CDs of the same album, unless the content is different. Meaning the album is remastered, or maybe they’ve added a couple B-sides, or live tracks. Vinyl, on the other hand, isn’t like that at all. People buy multiple copies of vinyl all the time. It’s one of the things that keeps vinyl growing as a business. So, in vinyl’s case, the format can be more important than the album. Which really means, sometimes vinyl isn’t really a format, especially by today’s standards.

Consider this, if I sold you a magazine printed on a table, and all you did with this magazine was rest your feet on it while you watched TV, would it still be a magazine? No, that’s a coffee table. Will some people read the coffee table? Sure, for a little while, but when they’re done the object they’ve purchased is still a coffee table. And that’s what vinyl has become. Yes, there’s music on that piece of plastic, and yes some people listen to it every once in a while, but when they’re done with it, it’s still there to be shown off and admired like a piece of furniture.

Digital, on the other hand, is a format. Digital exists for one purpose, and that purpose is to present music to an audience. When it’s not being played, it lays dormant. You can’t rest your feet on it. You can’t use the format as a conversation piece. You can only discuss the music the format presents. This is the first major problem with vinyl. The world is full of people that have no use for a whole bunch of coffee tables.

How Strong’s Our Will?

If you’ve read some of my articles or follow me on twitter, you know that I don’t believe many people listen to vinyl anymore. Yes, millions of units are being sold, but this doesn’t mean people actually listen to them. People might enjoy listening to vinyl. They might love it in fact, but they aren’t doing it, and one of the main reasons they’re not doing it is technology has made it so much easier to watch TV.

Back when vinyl was on top, TV was impossible to fill up on because of all the technological restraints of the time. The three major restraints were: there weren’t enough channels, there was only one TV in the house, and finally, there was no way to watch a show you missed. If your parents were watching Merv Griffin, you had to find some other way to occupy yourself. This meant make-out parties and music. The radio was originally a piece of home audio equipment, not just something in your car. You heard the song once, and if you wanted to hear it again, you kept listening to the station, or you went out and bought the record. If you wanted to know the lyrics, you didn’t go to Insert Random Song Lyric Site Here you read the inner sleeve.

Music was essentially our spare TV. It was a source of entertainment that you could never overdose on, because just like the TV, it was throttled by technological limitations. Here we are 50 years later and music is more accessible than ever. Unfortunately though, music didn’t go the way of the TV and get even more popular. Now that music is so easy to find and listen to, it’s taken on a different role. The role of the soundtrack.

Soundtracks Always Play Second Fiddle

Remember when lyrics started protests and riots? Now the only words that start protests are posted on Facebook walls. Remember when fans would cry hysterically and pass out at concerts? Now the only time we pass out is when water is 7 bucks a bottle, and we spent all our cash on the ticket. Remember when music separated us from our parents? Well back when music was one of our only distractions, parents were “square” and kids would hide their cigarettes.

Music used to inspire us to take up arms, or lose control over our emotions. Now everyone has a blog to preach their views. Everyone has a twitter account. Clothing is a 150 billion dollar industry in the US alone. And because of these things, expressing ourselves is not limited to blasting the Beatles and growing our hair long. Why do so many people say there’s no one making great music anymore? It’s because they think music has changed. But it’s not music that’s changed, it’s us that’s changed. The world has changed. Music doesn’t grab us like it used to, because we’re being grabbed by so many other distractions, we can’t experience it like we did in the past.

But we still love music, and we still want to listen to it, so what happens when you combine the ease of digital with 21st century distractions and commitments? You get a soundtrack. Music used to be our entire lives. Now it’s essentially become the soundtrack to living, and the soundtrack always plays second fiddle to the movie. It’s all just background music. We listen to it while we’re accomplishing something else. We listen to it while we’re working, or exercising, or driving from point A to point B.

We’re not using it for it’s intended purpose. It’s intended purpose is listening. And wouldn’t you know it, if you use vinyl for it’s originally intended purpose, it doesn’t easily leave you the ability to do something else at the same time. That’s the root of vinyl’s problem. We don’t use music for it’s intended purpose anymore. We use it as the soundtrack to the distractions of our lives. You think you can really experience an album while taking the subway to work at 7am? Music was meant to be listened to in one of two places. Live or in your bedroom. It was not created to keep you occupied while you walk on the treadmill.

Life is Complicated

So if the people buying vinyl don’t listen to it, then why do they buy it? I can sum that up in one very simple statement: The reason people still buy vinyl is because they either want help remembering the past, are trying not to forget the present, or want something to reflect on in the future. Vinyl is an object that helps you remember and discuss a particular time in your life. This is what draws people to vinyl. It’s what draws me. But even though I’m one of the biggest collectors of Punk and Hardcore out there, I still listen to digital all day long. Do I wish I could listen to vinyl all day long? Yeah, I also wish I had a garden that grew sold gold bars, but I don’t. Life is way too complicated to listen to vinyl whenever the mood hits me. But I still buy it. Why? Because one day life won’t be so complicated, and I’ll have a house on the beach with all the time in the world to rearrange my furniture.


Nick Mango is an entrepreneur and vinyl collector from Long Island, NY. He is the owner of LimitedPressing.com, TheOldLP.com and more. You can follow him on Tumblr at NickMango.com or on Twitter at @Alternate1985.

* (Andy’s note: Fear me, dear reader, for I am legion!)

    • #vinyl
    • #digital
    • #music industry
    • #formats
    • #Nick Mango
    • #collecting
    • #punk
    • #hardcore
  • 8 months ago
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“Every bad thing I have is acknowledged as worth it, because it led to this moment.” - Joe Briggs on the transgressive power of the pit

(Andy’s note: For my money, Joe is spot on when he talks about great crowds as a transgressive, almost religious, collective experience. Been there, so many times.)

(Photo by Marc Gaertner)

I have seen a lot of people recently criticising violent dancing in punk rock, as sexist, as ableist, or as just plain selfish. and most of the time, when people tell me something makes them uncomfortable, for whatever reason, I am okay with appreciating their perspective and stopping doing it, even if I don’t agree with their reasons, because I do have a lot of privileges and if I can attempt to eliminate and nullify them then it’s great, but not with this one. While I do try to understand other people’s perspectives I have real trouble imagining someone who hears music that is this energetic and loves it and doesn’t want to move to it. I can totally get someone who’s weirded out by touching strangers or by crowds like that, but surely that can’t be everyone. So I acknowledge that I’m not going to be able to comprehend everything, this is one time where I just don’t get the opposing point of view, so I’ll just say to them something along the lines of “Look, I have no idea why you would consider standing still to be an appropriate response to a band you like, but if that’s you’re thing then go for it.” This doesn’t mean that I am going to stop to notice people who are not dancing and attempt to fit in with the way they’re acting, and there’s an extremely important reason for that.

When I dance, in some crappy basement or the grimy back room of a pub, surrounded by a dozen or a hundred people dancing like that with me, I am not thinking about someone who’s not dancing, and why they may not be dancing. I’m not thinking of anything but the words in my throat and my unsteady footing. When I am dancing like that, in a really good pit, that is boisterous but not scary, that supports all the crowd-surfers and immediately picks up anyone who falls, that is as close as I get to a genuinely spiritual experience. The one time in my life where I feel the tickle of what might be described as a higher-consciousness. That is the moment where all the effort, and hurt, and stress, and love, all coalesces into a greater whole and just pours out of me and I grin like a moron. Every bad thing I have is acknowledged as worth it because it led to this moment. The dark only made this light seem brighter. Every good thing I have is present and screamed at the top of my voice. All the time spent working soul-sapping dead-end jobs, all the mistakes and shitty things I’ve done, all the frustration, all the lonely desolation I’ve ploughed through, all the hours spent listening to punk rock and scrutinising lyrics booklets as holy texts, they all seem completely worth it. When I’m dancing and singing, with other people dancing and singing, I no longer feel as if I’m some isolated fuck-up who’s toiling in obscurity, destined to live and die frustrated and alone; I feel like I am kin with a million isolated fuck-ups who all feel these things. I am feeling the music. And the music is in part born of pent-up rage, and pent-up loneliness and despair and all that shit streamed into these coruscating anthems. I will not abase that part of myself before anyone who just wants to stand there, no matter how valid or important the reason is that they want to do that. Maybe that’s selfish to an extent, but it’s not lazy or ill-considered, it’s that core part of me that makes me me. It’s the one stand I will always take, because in the dancing exists the little unshakable nugget of hope and self-evident truth that makes me barrel out of the show drenched in sweat and want to change the world, want to write books, want to play music that connects to some lonely 15 year old and save them the way I was saved, want to rip apart racism, and sexism, and homophobia, and all these shitty destructive prejudices, want to shock oppressive arseholes with wild situationist pranks, and blow minds with truth, and burn down entrenched class systems with a song in my heart and a glint in my eye. And I’m supposed to reel that in, to stifle that sensation because someone, whoever they are, whatever their sex or experiences, feels uncomfortable with it? Because someone wants to stand still and drink a beer and take a crappy blurry cellphone picture of the band and feels that this raucous and beautiful music is best appreciated by head nodding? Fuck that.

I’m not alone in this. It’d probably be really cliche to quote Emma Goldman right about now but it probably fits. As well as that Pat the Bunny line and guys talking feminism to get into girls’ pants and quoting Emma Goldman without bothering to dance. And I’d point to the sheer amount of people my age seduced into the punk scene and its progressive politics by Against Me!’s romantic glorious vision of crowds of likeminded people dancing like no-one’s watching with one fist in the air. This is a quote from a piece entitled My First Punk Show written by Brittany Walenta, a good friend of mine, about why she loves punk rock:

“In the pit, i realized that, outside of the pit, I was wearing a leash that I had never noticed because I had not tested its length. I discovered just how glorious it felt to be rude, violent, and drenched both in my sweat and the sweat of others. How cathartic it was to shout along to songs with no regard for how it sounds to other people. How completely primal and desexualizing it can be to fight a crowd of people to music.

And that night I was reluctant to wash the perfume, of cheap cigarettes, and lone star beer, and gallons of sweat, away in the shower. And the next day at school I wore my bruises and aching muscles as a badge of honor, because I knew I had found something so much more satisfying and thrilling than fluorescent lights and class rank and “funny” student run morning announcements. And for the first time i understood wanting to run away and join the circus.”

I want to just address a couple of specific points here, that a moshpit is sexist and/or ableist. I don’t think it’s sexist. To characterise the pit as purely an expression of testosterone is an incredibly limited gender-normative viewpoint that is effectively attempting to shame women into maintaining a quiet, reflective, stand-in-the-corner, coatrack, appreciation of the music when they might want to release all their stresses, and demonstrate all their love for this music, by dancing freely with a bunch of similarly stressed-out and wasted punks, like a scarecrow caught in the wind, just as a guy might want to sit at the back and watch the music in peace.

And as for ableism, I once saw a guy crowdsurfing in a wheelchair and it was a wonderful thing. I got the sense from everyone around me that there was this real joy at seeing someone do this, at realising that a disabled person is connecting with the music in exactly the same way that all us more able-bodied people were. Now maybe that’s patronising in a way, most able-bodied people don’t really have an exact idea of how hard it is to live with a physical disability, but we assume it must be pretty fucking hard at times and we do try to make allowances, though it’s just great to see someone just doing what the fuck they want regardless of what the expectations of them are. My girlfriend has been whacked in the face by a guy with no hand, and smacked in the shins by a guy in a motorised wheelchair in a circle pit, but when she related these stories to me it wasn’t like “What are those people doing there?” but again this sense of “How fucking awesome was it that people who might be constrained by their physical disabilities and also the social pressures to play up the victim card as a result of those physical disabilities are getting in the pit and enjoying it the way anyone can?” It was taking great joy in a reaffirmation of the powers of this thing we love and believe in, that it can lift up and free people who will often face a much tougher day-to-day struggle than most of us on the most basic level.

Real violence born of malevolence or carelessness is a terrible thing, but the fantasy of it, the concept of a constructive upward-striking violence that we are all a part of is a beautiful idea, and the pit offers that. I have been assaulted in the street more than once, not for quite some time but when I was 17 an amazing string of bad luck led to me being attacked three times in two days, the first two within 15 minutes of each other, by three completely unrelated groups of people for three different reasons. This led to me barely leaving the house for quite a while. It was tough and I hated myself for it (one of the big issues was that I thought that as a man I should’ve been able to defend myself), but I did get over this paranoia, and agoraphobia, and self-loathing, and one of the ways I got over it was by going to punk shows and moshing, getting into pits, filling myself with enough adrenaline that I didn’t care when I was hit in the face, I didn’t feel pain or terror, just concentration and exhilaration. At one Zatopeks show I fell over on the beer-slick floor and didn’t notice until two songs later that I had a significantly sized shard of glass sticking out of my hand which I ripped out with my teeth and carried on dancing. I’ve had a friend hit in the head with the lead singer’s guitar and he barely cared because he was dancing and because he was having fun, and yes, because there is an odd badge-of-pride to shrugging off pain and injury that some would characterise as a pointlessly macho exercise, but to me represents a physical aspect of that desire to pull in all one’s hurt, and to stream it into songs, and art, and the expression of dancing, mind over matter, rhythm over the chattering spikes of the world.

The pit is violent, but it’s not a violence aimed at anyone. (Also, let’s not pretend that non-dancers are inherently non-violent, we’ve all encountered the dickhead who throws punches at people dancing too close to them and their girlfriend. That happened to me personally at an Andrew Jackson Jihad show.) It is a communal physical and mental catharsis that should be, in its most perfect form, open to anyone who’s willing to stream all the love and passion they have for this music into a chaotic slamdance. Yes, some pits are overly violent and macho and that might annoy me, but it also pisses me off when nobody in a venue wants to respond to a beautiful piece of music by throwing themselves around with reckless abandon. I think ultimately there should always a place for both sitting and absorbing in peace and someone who wants to release all their stresses and demonstrate all their love for this music by dancing freely with a bunch of similarly stressed-out and wasted punks, like a scarecrow caught in the wind, but I always know which one I’m going to pick given an absolute choice. In a perfect pit, the kind I’ve been in a bunch of times, there’s always support for crowd-surfers or stage-divers, people actively attempting to hit people (or to molest people) rather than just bounce and shove are treated with utter contempt and disrespect, and nobody ever fails to stop dancing and immediately go to the aid of somebody who’s hit the floor, which is inevitably going to happen sometimes because of the expressive full-contact nature of the dancing, no matter how friendly the pit is. 

What I am always extremely quick to oppose is anything that seeks to sanitise and simplify the culture that I love. That I have invested myself in for about 40% of my time on this planet now, and all its stupidity and sweetness, all its intelligent activism and hard-fought communal spaces, all its noise. That it is a place for everything from gleefully pissy songs to a sustained self-interrogation of privilege and prejudice present within the scene. That it accepts and encourages all these things on a local and global scale. That it’s got bands ranging sonically from Ghost Mice to Threatener, from the simplicity of Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue to the sprawling epics of Fucked Up. In scenes from everywhere from Japan to Alaska. It’s a place for something as fantastically juvenile as the Hickey/Voodoo Glow Split or the music of Splodgenessabounds as it is for more stridently political or serious material like Crass or Bikini Kill. 

I reject the attempts to dull the sharp edge of punk rock, not just from the co-opting powers of mainstream culture, and their desire to remove the serious radical politics, and package rebellion as a hairstyle and a power chord, but from the uncompromising drive for equality eroding the fact that the beautiful (and terrible but ultimately essential) thing about people is that we’re all from different places, and all have our different ways of expressing ourselves, and comprehending the world, and fighting to make it the better world that we want. How can we invite and welcome people into the scene by taking away some of the verve, and romance, and noise, which makes it appeal to the sort of people who want to get into it? How can we make punk a threat again if we systematically purge all that is wild and carefree in its adherents? The idea that everyone has to cater wholly to one perspective by limiting the freedom of expression of everyone else, or that we need to institute equality by forcing people to give up anything that might offend or disturb anyone else is pretty much Stalinist. It is so absurd that it’s like a stereotypical right-wing caricature of a left-wing position. It’s the mentality that Kurt Vonnegut so perfectly satirised in Harrison Bergeron and the Sirens of Titan. 

Why should I be forced to acknowledge, and kowtow to, the possible misinterpretation of my dancing, and compromise this essential part of my being in favour of people who are crowing that a moshpit is anti-inclusive, as they completely fail to make the same attempt to understand the possible appeal and ethos behind something they disagree with, as I have done repeatedly with positions that are not my own; who have not made a single concession to the idea that what me, and my friends, and dozens of strangers who are for this moment my very best friend, are doing is not alienating in it’s intent, or even alienating in it’s execution, if you’re willing to understand it, but is in fact motivated by a constructive and inclusive desire to create, for one of these perfect moments that can occur when a band full of people as confused, and shitty, and broken as we are play their hearts out and everybody’s tumbling around the mic, these glorious fucking moments of equality, and joy, and freedom, open to all who wish to engage in it. The notion that we should stop that, and turn around and look for guidance from people who by all outward attributes appear to just not give a shit about where they are, and who they’re with, and what they’re witnessing, is lazy and selfish and anti-intellectual on your part and I reject it totally. Me and my fellow dancers and our pitborn friendships are Kevin Bacon and you are John Lithgow. And no-one roots for Lithgow.

I have huge problems with this piece. Maryam Hassan has thankfully already pointed out the inherent irony in the phrase “Consideration for others is punk fucking rock.” used in it, but there are bigger problems than that:

“I’ve never moshed because if you shove me, I am going to want to fight you. Because wanting to fight you is the natural reaction to being shoved. Now, you can kick my ass, no doubt. I’m an old lady. But I’ll still try to fucking fight you. Because you don’t just fucking shove people. What the fuck?”

Isn’t that your issue more than it is anyone elses? Because when someone shoves me at a show, I can recognise when there is intended malice and when there is not. Wanting to fight someone is not an all-purpose natural reaction to someone shoving you, it’s a selfish arsehole reaction. You’re mistaking your own views for the absolute truth.

“You are selfish. You are a selfish asshole, just like every selfish asshole you have ever complained about in your life. You are THE selfish asshole at every show you attend.”

Indeed. 

How is you saying that people shouldn’t dance, or that people should dance in a certain way (telling people at a punk show to learn to dance is like telling a punk band to learn their instruments, enthusiasm over technical ability is kind of the bloody point of the whole endeavour) less selfish than me and my friends wanting to dance and wanting to dance in the way that we love? “What about you and your desires trumps me and mine?”

I’ve been moved to apologise to bands after shows where people didn’t dance on behalf of the crowd and the scene, because it just seems disrespectful to these people, who have travelled hundreds, or thousands, of miles to play their hearts out, in a tiny room, for little to no money. Some things are incompatible, sometimes ideologies and philosophies will clatter and clang against each other, and there can be no compromise or diplomacy, and we just have to live with that. People who don’t want to dance have to accept people dancing and just stand a little further back, just as I have to reign in my exuberance and accept people not dancing at shows when there’s a crowd that doesn’t want to move even though it makes me feel massively uncomfortable and never fails to really make me feel like shit in the one place that can often lift me from my lowest moods. It’s an unbearably complex world, and often we have to acknowledge other people’s feelings and maybe cater to them if we realise that something means more to them than it does to us, but almost nothing means more to me than dancing. It is my line in the sand. NO PASARAN!

Joe Briggs is a writer from Oxford. He owns too many books and yet not enough. He attempts to map the shape of his punk-addled brain on his blog. He also has a twitter, a tumblr and a barely know ‘er. Like every other cunt in the world, he’s writing a novel. He’s asked me to include his email if any of you would like to discuss this piece directly.


    • #punk
    • #hardcore
    • #dancing
    • #moshing
    • #slamdancing
    • #collective experience
    • #transgressive experience
    • #DIY
    • #Joe Briggs
  • 11 months ago
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“The things that separate us are constructed, they are learned, taught, and most importantly they are challengeable.” - Ces Pearson on the improvements she’s seen in UK punk, and how there’s more to be done.

Over the years, I think that overt sexism within the punk scene in the UK has undoubtedly lessened. Perhaps I’m comparing punk rock shows to hardcore shows, and letting them off lightly, in terms of violent macho bullshit undermining any audible messages of solidarity and inclusion; but so many punk bands are singing positively and about things that matter, and this feeds into the audience, without all the aggression seen and felt in the context of hardcore. The frame of reference is shifting slightly; overt sexism and immature gender stereotyping are not cool, and not acceptable. Bands that include women, or that sing about women’s issues, are currently both visible, and inspiring, in the UK. Seeing artists like ONSIND, Caves, Ducking Punches, Porches, Pudge, Helen Chambers, and now Great Cynics, is a breath of fresh air. Alongside recognition of issues regarding women specifically and their participation, is the growth in what appears to be a more inclusive and less macho male environment.

It’s hard to go to a show after having been doing the same thing for 8 years, and see it as anything other than a regular puck rock gig. After so long it just doesn’t register how uneven the gender make up is at shows, and in bands. It’s just how it is, and how it’s always been. A woman in a band is an inspiration, someone to get confused about, am I in love or do I just wanna be them so badly? Do guys feel that way when they see a band play? My guess is not nearly as much, because it’s not an inspirational break from tradition to see a guy play a show. It’s positive and empowering to see a woman on stage, but given that we’ve been present within this subculture, and made vital contributions to it throughout its inception and development, should it be such a special occasion? It should be the norm.

As soon as a woman steps onto the stage, and picks up her guitar, bass, or mic, or sits down behind the drum kit, there is so often a palpable sense of expectation in the room. A woman in a band has reached arguably the most highly respected platform of participation in the scene, she’s no different from the males that surround her, and yet she’s still got to work twice as hard to be accepted in this role. When a guy sucks in a band, he just sucks. If a woman plays badly, it’s because she’s a woman. Immediate objectification takes place – if she looks like a Front model, she’s just there to look at, and if she doesn’t she mustn’t be heterosexual and therefore worthy of your attention, because obviously if she was she’d have made more of an effort for you guys right? And if a woman can’t be tamed by your sexual prowess then what is the point in acknowledging her? This is of course a generalisation, one based upon negative aspects of behaviour at shows, but nevertheless, it is one which needs to be highlighted and challenged.

Punk is a space in which we can liberate ourselves and challenge what we have shoved down our throats day in day out. We can challenge capitalism, we can challenge far right politics, we can challenge signs saying ‘no skateboarding’, and bylaws against drinking cider in the street, but we can’t seem to shake off those influences we find in nearly every aspect of modern life, which depict women as sexual and domestic beings, and men as the boss, both defined by their overt heterosexuality. Our subculture has been infiltrated by these gender assumptions; you can see it in the presence of a Front magazine stage at Hevy Fest, in the complete re-write of women out of the history of punk music and subculture, and most evidently, in the gender make up at shows and in bands.

As men and women, we’re sold different lives from the very beginning and we need to challenge this, not drag it along with us into something as liberating and exciting as punk. The things that separate us are constructed, they are learned, taught, and most importantly they are challengeable. We’ve learned to objectify and to sexualise one another, and we can just as easily forget that shit, and gain so much more from each other, if we let ourselves.

Ces Peason is a postgraduate student currently finishing an MA in Social Policy. The UK punk scene has been a huge part of her life for the past 8 years or so and she has written extensively, during her undergraduate degree, about gender and sub culture, with particular reference to punk and hardcore in the UK. To learn more, email her.

    • #punk
    • #hardcore
    • #diy
    • #gender
    • #sexism
    • #feminism
    • #social construction
    • #UK punk
  • 11 months ago
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“…I needed an alternative to mainstream society - the space to be who i want to be.” Lou Hanman of Caves on strict gender norms and their impact on punk and hardcore.


(Photo by robert@hot-shot.at)

It was really great to be asked by Andy to contribute to his series on sexism in punk. When he said he’d been trying to think of someone from a band in the UK punk scene, to write something from a UK point of view, it sounded like he couldn’t think of many people.

This makes me feel sad and reminded me of a question I recently answered for a zine - “What it’s like for a woman in punk - do I feel outnumbered?”

Yes, there are definitely less women and girls in punk, and I’d need to have gone on to do a postgrad course to go into exactly why. But I guess one of the reasons is that, in the rules of 1950s gender roles which are still so ingrained in society - it’s not very lady-like to be sweating and yelling your head off in a punkrock show. 

I cannot stand these archaic rules that people are still bombarded with every single minute of every day - through our working lives and home lives. (If anyone has got a few hours free I’ll tell em some things that happen at my work and the Victorian England where my folks came from).  I’ve never felt I conform to these rules and gender roles - how you dress/how you act/how you should be in society.  

Maybe another reason why girls don’t feel encouraged to join punk bands - it’s the boys club that they are confronted with - in music shops, in rehearsal rooms, in gigs, record stores etc. It’s such a shame that there aren’t more girls getting into playing in bands - it’s so much fun.  

I hate this unspoken discouragement that it’s not normal for a girl or woman to play in a punk band.  Fuck that. I’ve not felt like those rules apply to me. You don’t have to act the way that society tries to make you act. This goes for both men and women. 

I got into the punk scene because I needed an alternative to mainstream society - the space to be who i want to be - be able to live how I want to, feel free from negative judgement (both musically and in lifestyle choices), gender roles, homophobia etc.  I have found my voice and place in this DIY punk network and I feel respected and empowered when I play a Caves gig.  It is outside of this (pretty small network of great people) that there is sexism and all the same issues of the mainstream are present.  

I go out of my way to avoid the lad/frat party vibe of alot of punk bands and scenes. I’ve been at hardcore shows in Bristol where there have been what I can only describe as homophobic rallying from the stage and acoustic gigs where the guy performing has told a rape joke.  I’ve had guys ask me if I need help changing my strings.  At some shows because of my height, I hide behind big tall guys when a pit gets too violent for me (I’m too fucking busy to get knocked around and get a broken limb). I also can’t stand it when people use the word “gay” to describe something shit that they want to take the piss out of (I don’t care if kids have started saying it - it’s still homophobic).

I’ve felt alienated and marginalised by all of these things - and I hate it, and i shouldn’t feel like that at a punk gig - where it should be freer from the gender roles/white male privilege rules that are still so ingrained in society.

I could go on and on writing but I’ll stop there - there’s so many things to say.

Obviously, no one is perfect but through peer to peer talking and thinking about whether your actions are alienating someone we can all be better to one another, we need a punk lifestyle to work when the values of the mainstream don’t.

Lou Hanman is a songwriter, singer and guitarist in the DIY punk band Caves.  Based in Bristol, she also teaches drums and plays drums as a freelance musician. You can find Caves on Tumblr, Bandcamp, and Twitter. Go and see them. They’re fucking rad.

    • #punk
    • #hardcore
    • #sexism
    • #gender
    • #feminism
    • #homophobia
    • #DIY
    • #Caves
    • #Bristol
    • #UK
  • 1 year ago
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“We owe it to ourselves to grow and learn together…” Jen Twigg on her experiences of sexism in the punk scene

(Andy’s note: Thanks for all the support so far. The guest writers and myself are all extremely grateful and humbled by it. Without further ado, here’s Jen.)

Photo by Rosie Richeson

“A thousand tiny paper cuts.” That’s what my friend calls it when so many little injustices happen — you wouldn’t make a big deal about one on its own, but a thousand of them together are a gaping wound. Add them up: some bro cheerfully telling a rape joke to a room full of laughing people, women-hating graffiti on the wall of the bathroom in the bar you’re about to play, the door guy not believing you when you say you’re in the band, any man in any situation talking over you to the guys in your band. That intangible, sinking, isolated, feeling of trying to be accomodating while retreating a little bit further into yourself for protection every time. 


I came to punk through east coast hardcore, and everyone I knew was into it, so those were the shows I almost always went to at first. I remember standing in the back of a large room once and still getting punched hard in the face by a beefy dude. Afterward, I was talking with my ex-partner, just beginning to realize how much I was not into these displays of performative machismo, and he kept saying “this is just how it is, how it’s always been. it’s not going to change.” I’ve written about violence at hardcore shows before so I won’t rehash it all again, but I’ll repeat this: privileging the antiquated notion that men will be men and need to blow off steam violently is not progressive, it’s just mirroring mainstream values of entitlement and privilege. Allowing the posturing that happens in these cases to continue undermines any other progressive politics you might be supporting (commonly veganism and straight edge). There are ways to get stoked and go buck wild without being violent and creating an oppressive space; I’ve seen them at a million other shows.

Although I don’t think we can ever talk too much about these things that happen to us since it never seems to sink in with those who need to hear it the most, and I have my fair share of stories, I want to address another side of it right now. If you think you don’t do the things that we call out in pieces like these about gender (and race, and sexuality, etc. etc.) in punk, then prove it by being a good ally. The simple fact that you don’t think you condescend to female musicians and don’t tell rape jokes isn’t enough; you need to be actively helping us have this conversation with folks who don’t get it. 

How can you be a good male ally to women (and everyone) in punk? It’s really not that hard, I promise! All you have to do is listen to women and believe what they tell you about their own experiences. When someone comes to you with sexual assault allegations, don’t pull the “he’s always been cool to me” or “where’s the proof?” cards (The only time punks love cops and believe the justice system works is when their friend has assaulted a lady in the scene.). When someone tells you they feel alienated, don’t tell them they are taking it too seriously, or they should suck it up just because you have never felt alienated yourself, and don’t think “Oh, well i know a woman who says she doesn’t feel alienated, so that must mean you are wrong about how you feel!”. Don’t set up a system of competition where you privilege women who can hack it with the dudes, and look down on those who don’t want to get in the pit. When you’re standing around shooting the shit with a group of men and someone tells an off-color joke, speak up and let them know it’s not okay, even if there are no women around. Will it be uncomfortable? Probably. Welcome to our world.

Don’t condescend to women, even if you have more experience with gear and writing music than they do, because you may have been more supported in the past than they were. If they ask for your help, teach without judgment and value their input. At the same time, never assume that someone doesn’t know lots about gear or writing music just because they are a woman! Educate yourself about consent. Most of all, don’t expect to get patted on the back and heaped with praise every time you do something decent as an ally. Acting this way should be the norm, not the exception.

Punk is fiercely emotional for a lot of us, because we are tied so deeply to the community, and it can be hard not to take it personally and be defensive when something about it isn’t perfect. We owe it to ourselves not to be defensive, though. We owe it to ourselves to grow and learn together in this community, to listen to each other, to actually be as progressive as we said we’d be when we left the mainstream to come here.

Jen Twigg is a writer, zine fest organizer, and enthusiastic girls rock camp volunteer living in Chicago. She will never give up on the Baltimore Orioles and has a guest column in this month’s MRR. You can find out more about her band The Ambulars on facebook or ye olde myspace at http://www.myspace.com/theambulars and her personal blog is at http://jtwigg365.tumblr.com.

    • #sexism
    • #misogyny
    • #punk
    • #hardcore
    • #violence
    • #feminism
    • #DIY
    • #i live sweat
  • 1 year ago
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Superfluous Stronghold: We’re Punk But We Ain’t Perfect - P.S. Eliot’s Katie Crutchfield offers her views on sexism in punk


Photo by Rich Guttierrez

(Andy’s note: This piece is the third in a loose series on sexism in punk and hardcore. You can check out the first and second pieces here and here.)

It all started this weekend in Mccarren Park. The Two Funerals were in town from Richmond and we were wandering and daydreaming of margaritas in Styrofoam cups and dismally overdue heart-to-hearts. My pal and now fellow I Live Sweat contributor Lauren Denitzio met up with us and with the help of well tequila and a picnic blanket, we made all our daydreams come true. The conversation shifted into a discussion about our most recent experiences with sexism in the punk community; these conversations sort of always do. I consider all of us components of a decreasingly rare species of ladies/lady-bodied humans in the DIY punk world. We are certainly radical, but calling us “radical feminists” is too loose. It’s vague. What we are is complicated. We’re victims of idiocy. We are culprits of judgment without support. But we are not guilty by association.

It was then that I decided to write to Andy who runs this lovely web blog and see if he’d be so kind to let me use his medium and my minuscule notoriety as a soapbox to talk about something that is creating quite a division in our already martyred scene. We’re small and we’re specifically weird and the fact that the simple idea of treating all people with equal respect is warranting a shitstorm of hyper-masculine cold-shouldering and hate-typing is fucking ludicrous as far as I’m concerned. Acknowledging a giant zit on the chin of our tiny punk rock commonality does not have to be a witch-hunt. It doesn’t have to be a big blame game or an excuse for some ex-JV benchwarmer with an X watch to make me, Lauren, the Two Funerals or anyone else the butt of some defensive, awkward and outlandishly counter-productive joke. It doesn’t have to be a war, a battle or even an argument. It just has to be a conversation.

So what’s the big problem? You might find yourself pondering that right about now. I’m going to refer back to a little bit of internet drama you may have heard about/participated in sometime last year. The abomination that is the B9 message board popped into my P.S. Eliot Google alert one day and I knew for sure that there was a storm a-brewin’. After deciphering the editorialized asininity of 15-year-old cavemen I began to notice something profound. You know when you’re young and your mom tries to tell you not to bother an antpile because “they’re more afraid of you then you are of them”? My intelligence, physical appearance, emotional stability and creative output were all being called in to question because of that inane thread or whatever you call it and the only rhyme or reason I can propose is that these impotent messageboard cyborgs are scared shitless that there are women out there who are more productive, talented and capable than themselves. Now that sounds mighty detrimental, right? I’ll refer back to our park conversation by saying that some people are never going change their fucking stupid and bigoted opinions. You can’t agree with everyone about everything no matter how right you are. Some people are just going to throw themselves to the wind as a lost cause and usually it’s best to just let them sail.

So to those of you who I haven’t lost by denouncing hardcore gab-session forums and all their creepy inhabitants: do you want to know what makes me feel unsafe? Being written off as a songwriter and a musician because there is a male-bodied individual in my band. Having my most personally valuable compositions and output reduced to some stupid one-paragraph blog-post I made about all the fucked up stuff people were saying about my band regarding my gender. The notion that people still write me off because they “dislike female vocals”. The fact that if I take my shirt off at a show, I immediately become a spectacle. It’s just as hot for me at shows in the summer as it is for anyone else.  While in the scene I am directly involved and with the company I choose to keep this eerie irreverence is almost never present, I have seen and felt so much alienation in my 7 years of touring and playing all ages punk shows. All of my negative experiences mirror the negative experiences of so many other ladies involved in this music scene equitably. It’s as unnecessary as it is disheartening. This issue is mocked as often as it is brushed off and it is truly inexplicable to me. The counter-culture we’re a part of has evolved so much since it’s outset but the consistent ideology is rebellion against an assumed oppressive normalcy. Defiance. Refusal to conform to whatever bullshit the rest of the world is being spoon-fed. What’s normal today? Are women objectified? Yes. Are queer/trans-identified people struggling for parity? Yes. Is it difficult to be taken seriously if you don’t adhere to certain physical standards i.e. hair color, weight, clothing, etc.? Yes. So what really gets my goat here is that there are seemingly people within the punk community who think this way too. The way “society wants us to think”. That is when I feel uneasy. The thought that I could go to a show and feel the same way I did in the hallway at my highschool. Chest bumps, ass grabs, lewd comments, debauchery.

I don’t think we all need to have identical convictions. It isn’t a cult. But these fundamental differences and gaps make me feel pretty fucking unsafe. It isn’t punk. It isn’t what punk is about. It is both antagonizing and depressing that shining a light on this big flaw in our community warrants the response it gets. We, as punks, as anarchists, as free-thinking, coffee-drinking, Black Flag-loving, well-read, well-articulated, over-stimulated punks, are supposed to be the progressive ones. We’re the people who call out the bigots. We’re the people who embrace the differences in each other. We’re the weirdo loner geeks who endlessly support the other weirdo loner geeks. Gender, race, age, sexual identity and any other trivial or biological property should draw no lines between us. So when the doorman at my show thinks that I’m someone’s girlfriend and won’t believe that I’m playing in a band, well, that makes me feel unsafe. When I’m patronized by my male peers in conversations about Nirvana and Hagstroms and obscure guitar tunings, that makes me feel unsafe too. The predominant, mainstream consumer-motivated world at large is a creepy place to be. We should be united in our hostility and we shouldn’t be partitioned by an inability to empathize.

Though while sitting there in the park, I felt myself inadvertently cursing off jock hardcore, Punknews and testosterone, my attitude toward the subject remains hopeful. I don’t think “calling people out” is a conclusive method of making this scene a safer and better place. I think that sensitivity, compassion and opening up a dialogue with one another is really all that it takes.

Katie Crutchfield is a writer, musician, and college dropout living in Brooklyn, NY. She writes, plays and tours in P.S. Eliot, Bad Banana and Waxahatchee and has a knack for drunken blogposts and covering Sam Cooke songs. You can find information about P.S. Eliot at pseliot.blogspot.com and Katie’s personal blog at libranhusband.blogspot.com.


    • #P.S. Eliot
    • #pop-punk
    • #punk
    • #hardcore
    • #sexism
    • #misogyny
  • 1 year ago
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